What Would You Like Your Husband’s Ex to Know About Your Life?
Do you wish your husband's ex could have a better sense of what you struggle with?
I have a guest post on Jennifer Newcomb Marine and Carole Marine’s No One’s the Bitch Website today. As you know, I strongly feel that women don’t need the additional pressure of “fixing it” with hubby’s ex. Civility is often a difficult enough goal, and we need to be very careful about siphoning energy away from self-care and tending to our marriage, given how depleting stepmothering is, and how vulnerable remarriages with kids are to divorce. In the spirit of engineering the kind of civility that can make everyone’s life easier, and in the hopes of fostering mutual understanding, here’s my post.
Have a read and leave a comment–what would you like YOUR husband’s ex to know about your life?
Tags: bi-nuclear household, blended family, Carol Marine, co-wife conflict, conflict in a remarriage with children, divorce, dual household, ex-wife, Jennifer Newcomb Marine, New American Family, No One's the Bitch, remarriage, remarriage with children, stepmonster, stepmother, stepmother advice, stepmother support, stepmothering, stepmothers, wednesday martin, wife, wives and ex-wives
December 3rd, 2009 at 10:28 am
The link to the comment place on No One’s the Bitch doesn’t work. So I’ll comment here.
I would like her to know that I am not Your Dad’s Mistress. I’ve been here for eleven years and I’m not going away. Our partnership is as valid as any marriage.
I would like her to know that people who aren’t Catholics can be good people.
I would like her to know that she can take off her wedding ring now.
I would like her to know that it’s ok to tell her kids that the marriage with their dad had not worked for approximately ten years before he left her, and that they hadn’t had sex in ten years when he left her. They’re grownups now and they can handle it.
I would like her to know that I have probably cooked more meals for her six kids by now than she has, and with very little help or thanks. And that I have helped them with their homework. And that the reason her youngest is in college at all is probably because of me.
I would like her to know that despite her oldest son’s death threat against me four years ago, my family and I rallied to help him when he was seriously ill this fall and found an expert to work with him on his mysterious blood disease.
But I’d also like her to know: Nobody’s the bitch, but I am Da Wiznitch. She should remember that.
December 3rd, 2009 at 10:57 am
I didn’t steal your man, so stop telling your kids I did. It’s so inappropriate, not to mention untrue. That’s why your daughter told the family therapist, “I don’t like it when my mom puts me in the middle” and why, according to the therapist and her pediatrician, she has terrible stomach aches when she’s over here. When you try to screw up my life and happiness, you are screwing up the life and happiness of your kids and tearing them apart. They have panic attacks every time they come over here because you call literally 15x a day, and before they show up you pump them full of invective and your misplaced rage. You actaully tell your kids not to talk to me when they’re here, and that I am trying to “take all the money away from them and from mommy.” Lady, you need to get a boyfriend. Not to mention a life. Stop living in the past, stop being so angry. I can handle whatever you dish out, though I’d rather not. But your kids can’t handle waht you’re doing. Oh, I forgot, the counsellor I pay for them to see already told you to get a handle on your rage, that it was destroying them. I can’t mother your kids. Only you can do that. They’d be so much better off if only you would.
December 3rd, 2009 at 11:31 am
I am not a home wrecker. I did not steal your husband from you. Your constant bitterness is unhelathy and the only person you hurt is your 5 year old daughter. You are not in control of our lives. You do not have a say in how we live our lives. Because we don’t allow you to have this control does not give you the right to withhold your daughter from her father.
You think my husband is the person who ruined a family, but in actuallity it is you. You have come between 2 brothers; parents and their son and most importantly your daughter and her father. You should be ashamed of yourself.
Your judgment that we have no morality is ridiculous. Stop using religion as a reason to be bitter and nasty. Think of your daugter for once. The world does not revolve around you.
December 3rd, 2009 at 11:44 am
Your kid has massive anxiety to the point where she won’t spend the night anymore. If you’re at all late (like you are every freaking time), she panics, my husband gets angry, and it all comes out on me.
She thinks you’re the most wonderful person on earth, and she regards me with the cool eye of a spy, taking notes, and reports back to you about everything little thing I say or do wrong (which is everything). She hates my shoes, she doesn’t think I pet my dog correctly, she doesn’t like my hair, but god forbid I ask her to use a fork instead of her fingers.
My husband can’t answer your 15! text messages a day, because he’s at work. He works. He works hard. You don’t. What do you do all day besides scheming? He works freaking hard to pay your child support and pay off debt you helped accrue. He’s never late paying, is he? Has he ever been late? No. Then why do you start hounding him three days before he gets paid? He lives in dread of your calls and texts, and I do, too. He only calls you when it’s absolutely necessary, so the least you can do is answer your phone.
We live paycheck-to-paycheck. He bought his first new pair of pants in over a year, but the child has her hair and nails done monthly and wants video games and to eat out every night. He would love to buy her gifts (especially as that is now how she views love). You obviously love her more, she says. Your child is greedy, spoiled, bossy, and bratty. There I said it.
Stop scheduling the child’s extracurricular activities on my husband’s time without consulting him and then expect him to foot half the bill (WE DON’T HAVE THE EXTRA MONEY) and chauffeur her around. He comes off looking like a jerk, because he has to say “no” a lot!
You are so good at promising things in front of the counselor. How about living up to it? Your child’s anxiety is caused almost exclusively by you. Please stop blaming us. Please get a job or a boyfriend. Please stop acting like I stole your husband. I didn’t. We started dating long after you were separated. Your divorce wasn’t all your fault, I know that; my husband isn’t perfect, but your divorce wasn’t my fault AT ALL.
December 3rd, 2009 at 12:20 pm
If my husband’s ex were reading, here is what I would say:
Hi. I’m trying. Really, really trying, to be civil and polite. I’m not divorced from a man who remarried, so I’m trying to understand where you’re coming from.
I’m thinking I would just feel really, really jealous. I know you were the one who filed for divorce. And I know there was no cheating. I also know that you wouldn’t be so angry at me unless you felt really, really hurt about your husband moving on. I can see why it would be hard. I’ve felt jealousy before and it’s a killer. I’m sorry.
Your kids are great. You raised them to be very polite and kind, I think, and I admire that. But they’re not perfect and often they’re pretty awful toward me. It will surprise you, and I wouldn’t blame you if you kind of liked it. But it’s not good for anyone over here for them to have closed hearts and for me to see their worst side. I know they feel guilty about liking me–I can tell by the way they wont’ look me in the eye after three years! I’m making fewer efforts to do fun stuff and just letting them have their space while they’re here and remaining friendly but low pressure. I know how hard it would be for you to give them permission to like me. But it would make life better for them.
It must be really hard to lose control and to imagine your kids in my home with your husband. I don’t think I would like it. I know you’re taking it hard that I’m pregnant. I think I understand.
Can we just bury the hatchet? You are eligible, attractive, smart. I think if you let go of your anger, wonderful possibilities would open up in your life and you would feel better.
I hope so. From Kate
December 3rd, 2009 at 1:44 pm
Gosh. I thought I was angry. Now I know I have some company.
December 3rd, 2009 at 1:44 pm
Thankfully, I’ve already had the chance to tell my husband’s ex what I wanted her to know. I sent her an email after she sent my husband a note telling him that her kids didn’t like me and didn’t want to spend time with me (to date, they have spent a total of about 48 hours with me in seven years of marriage).
While sometimes I wish I hadn’t sent that letter, there were some things in it that she needed to know. Interestingly enough, I have noticed that since she got that communication from me, she has done her best to twist things to “show me” how wrong I was. So far, most of her efforts have backfired.
There is one thing I would like to tell her now that I didn’t tell her then. That is, it’s very nice to know that my good example and advice has led her back into the world of higher education and she will soon finally earn a bachelor’s degree after 25 years of dropping out. It’s nice to know that the former high school dropout who encouraged her son to drop out of high school and pulled her two daughters out of school to “homeschool” them while working full time, now has the lofty intentions of earning a doctorate in education. I’m glad to know that the two little kids spawned by her third marriage are now going to benefit from being raised by their hateful, mixed up sisters while she chases her dreams of academic and professional glory. I’m especially glad to know that in two short years, my husband’s younger daughter will finally be 18 and we will no longer care what her mother does to show the world how foolish and narcissistic she really is. I sincerely hope that by the time my husband’s ex wife has earned her PhD, we will no longer have any contact with her whatsoever.
December 3rd, 2009 at 2:02 pm
I care alot about your daughter. I do alot for your daughter, alot you should be doing for her. I cook and clean and take her to the doctors and therapist. I do her home schooling. Take her on field trips with her virtual school. But I never mind. Some of these things you never did for her!! This house was a disgusting mess when I moved in and for that you should be ashamed.
I am not the reason for your divorce. You were divorced for over 2 years before I came along. So get over it! And stop telling people, and your daughter that I was the cause. Stop bad mouthing me and my children to your daughter and mutual friends you have with my fiance. I don’t call you names in front of your daughter and I would appreciate the same respect. I am a good person and shouldn’t ever have to prove that to anyone. I have a 4 wonderful kids and grandkids that I love and cherish. And guess what? They love and appreciate me! I have a life and family outside of your daughter.
You should really be a mother to your daughter instead of taking out all your anger and hostility on her. That is so unfair to her. Instead of downing her all the time why don’t you find something nice to say to her? None of this is her fault nor is it my fault. Grow up, move on.
Sometimes you should put your daughter before your job. Take her for a weekend, spend some time with her. I do think deep down inside she longs for this. She won’t admit it tho. She is probably afraid of being hurt by you yet again. My Bf and I have to deal with all your lies and hate every time she comes home from an outing with you, when that happens, which is rare.
My life isn’t easy being a stepmom, but I am doing the best I can. You should do the best you can for your daughter, help her, guide her, teach her. But you don’t bother. You never did from what I can see. Don’t get angry at her if she likes me, or tells you something I did for her. Be thankful that someone kind and caring and not selfish is taking care of something so precious as your child.
December 3rd, 2009 at 3:24 pm
I am profoundly trust-worthy. I want you to be happy. I want your children to be happy. I want to be allowed to be happy, too, with my husband. I want to be trusted and to be wished well by you, I want to be respected, I want my husband to be respected, and I want my marriage to be respected.
December 3rd, 2009 at 5:26 pm
Wow. I can hardly read these they make me so angry. Why, Wednesday, are so many women so bitter and so angry for so long - even when they were the ones to initiate the divorce?? There must be some psychological/biological/primal reason. I just don’t get it. Where have all the reasonable women gone? They are abusing their kids. What these stepmoms describe is child abuse. Period. Why don’t they see it?
December 3rd, 2009 at 5:36 pm
It occurred to me today that to the extent that ex-wives fear that they might have done things to cause the failure of their marriage, to that exact extent they blame their ex-husband’s new partner (and sometimes him) for that failure.
My partner’s ex-wife drove him away from her by all kinds of egregious behavior. He hung in there for twenty long years, ten of which were really terrible, and finally threw in the towel. Apparently, she was surprised that he left! It amazes me that women can treat their husbands so badly and then be surprised when he leaves. Surely they are at least somewhat aware that they did some things that were destructive to their marriage.
But God forbid that the kids should ever think Mom might have had something to do with the divorce! So Mom does everything in her power to convince them that she’s the wronged and aggrieved party.
I saw this happening with a friend of mine–call her B–this past summer. She was the one who initiated the divorce from her husband. Her children were grown and had left home. She left him three times, once taking almost all their savings. He patiently waited for her to come home and decide what she wanted to do. Finally she decided she wanted a divorce, and it seemed fairly amicable. She got a fair settlement it seemed.
Fast forward two years. Now her ex-husband has moved on. He has a new girlfriend. So what does my friend, B, do? She tells her children that her husband started dating his girlfriend “before the divorce was final,” as if that was a crime. I told that to an elderly neighbor and she laughed. “Mr P and I were living together long before his divorce was final,” she said. Probably half the old people in our neighborhood got together before their divorces were final.
B also tells everybody that her children hate the new girlfriend, and she tries to make the children believe they hate the new girlfriend. The girlfriend is “trash.” (I’ve heard that one leveled at me too; it’s a favorite in the South.) Etc.
I thought maybe B was not aware of how destructive she was being. I talked to her about what a bind the kids are in when the ex-wife does this. (B used to be friends with the new girlfriend, and she knows she’s not a terrible person.) She became enraged at me and stopped talking to me. I think she was effecting this alienation of her children very deliberately. “He doesn’t deserve to be happy,” she said of her ex-husband. She’s ruining her ex-husband’s chances to be happy in the future, just for “revenge,” and because she’s not happy herself.
This was a little window for me into the world of ex-wives, and it was not a pretty picture. I was very depressed for a while this summer, contemplating this scene, because I realized that I had probably been on the receiving end of the same machinations for ten years.
December 3rd, 2009 at 7:05 pm
I want to answer Stepmom Magazine Publisher’s question, because it seems to be the question everyone is asking: Why? Why the bitterness and anger, particular in those instances where the ex wive herself has instigated the divorce of her own volition, and NOT because her ex husband “cheated”?
My answer is that I don’t have an answer, except to say that world-wide, co-wife conflict is virtually a cultural universal where the co-wives aren’t related in some way. I’m not saying we’re precisely co-wives, no, but in most cases we’re sharing resources in the same way co-wives have to. I’m going to ask others to chime in here…Jennifer, Mary Kelly-Williams, KG Anderson….what say you?
December 3rd, 2009 at 7:22 pm
I have my own resources and don’t depend on my partner in any way. I have never seen myself as being in conflict with his ex-wife or kids for “resources.” We have shared all our expenses 50/50.
But it could be that his ex-wife thinks–and she has certainly told her kids–that somehow my presence diverts resources–ok, let’s just call it money–from her and the kids to me.
If you see my partner’s time as a resource, it is certainly true that he spends less time with her because he’s with me, but when they were together, she didn’t want to talk to him, so…As for the kids, we lived just a few short blocks away and they were always welcome to come over. But some of them wouldn’t.
December 3rd, 2009 at 7:58 pm
Elizabeth, I think you are right that time and investment are also “resources” in this context. And that many times ex-wives feel “there’s less for me because of her.” (I know many women have told me these feelings intensified all around after the man and his “new” wife had kids together).
I think this situation brings out primitive feelings and behaviors and that really it’s naive to expect the “new” wife to be able to fix things by reaching out to the ex. I really think it’s up to the ex here. I do know many women who are ex wives and are honorable, wonderful people. And I also know that when there are really serious problems in a remarriage or repartnership with children, you can count on there being a hostile and angry ex wife in the picture.
December 3rd, 2009 at 8:05 pm
When I first became a reality for the child, her first statement to her father was, “Now you won’t have as much money to spend on me!” She was 9, so that was her excuse. The day after her mother found out her ex had a girlfriend, she texted him to say it was time to renegotiate child support. She was nearly 40, what was her excuse? She knew she didn’t have a leg to stand on, but she was used to him folding to her every whim. Now with me to consult, he didn’t give in, and she gave up. Absolutely ridiculous.
I work full time and earn my money. We split expenses pretty evenly. Yet the child still panics when she sees I have something new and thinks her father is lavishing all his money on me instead of her.
December 3rd, 2009 at 8:32 pm
I’ve been following Kristin Maschka’s book, This is Not How I Thought it Would Be: Remondeling Motherhood to get the Lives We Want Today, and I think a lot of the aggression has to do what it means to be a mother in most default situations in our society. In most situations, mom gets the global responsibility for parenting and dad gets tasks delegated to him and often the job of main resource provider. When mom and dad divorce, there’s not a smooth transition to a relationship better suited to divorced parents. Mom often still has global responsibility for the kids, but when she tries to delegate tasks to dad or draw on resources from dad, conflict kicks in. This way of parenting — mom with responsibility, dad being assigned tasks and viewed as a resource provider — is frustrating for lots of married people — men and women — nevermind how frustrating it is for divorced people.
Wednesday, your work is so important and so influential. I hope you’ll consider not using the term co-wives (unless men are also co-husbands!). Thinking of myself as a co-wife feels so awful to me. It’s similar to how the term blended family feels so rotten to lots of stepmoms. It’s something I’m not interested in being! Relational aggression between girls and between women can happen for many, many reasons. It happens in situations where women are sharing a man, but it can also happen just because a woman is jealous or feels threatened by another women for other reasons as well — some of them less legitimate. I guess to me, thinking of a stepfamily system as similar to a co-wife situation legitimizes the aggression that is often directed by moms toward stepmoms — and that stepmoms are so frustrated, angry and hurt by.
December 3rd, 2009 at 8:41 pm
Jill,
WOAH!! I hate the very concept that when you marry a guy with kids you also “marry” his ex-wife, the central conceit of a book I hated that came out a few years ago (Stepwives and Ex-Wives, or something like that). I don’t like the idea of women being expected even to co-parent with their husband’s exes. No way!! And I am adamant in all my writing that there is a ex-wife and a wife, period–I utterly reject the term “new wife.” The co-wife analogy is just that–an analogy to explain that world-wide hostility and conflict are virtually universal when a man has “two families.”
Don’t misunderstand please that I think women somehow have to “share”! And thank you for giving me the opportunity to clarify. And for your thoughtful comments, as always.
P.S. I think I have something new to post in the next days about why some ex-wives get so angry. It has to do with coming from a very possessive and exclusive and exclusionary mothering paradigm, in which mothers never share responsibility for childrearing with anyone else. So when a new quasi-maternal figure comes on the scene, she is tremendously threatening. More soon. Thanks again for reading,
xx wednesday
December 3rd, 2009 at 10:02 pm
Right on about the possessive mothering syndrome. Keep repeating: It Takes a Village. (Oh wait: maybe that would mean co-parenting with ex-wives! But maybe that could work, if ex-wives weren’t so mean.)
Maybe if neighborhoods were stronger like they used to be in some places, mothers would be more accustomed to other adults looking out for and disciplining their kids, and they wouldn’t become so threatened, in the event of divorce, by a stepmom. (But I wouldn’t count on it. Sounds like Dogon villages are pretty close knit but also horribly competitive.)
I really think that the root of the problem is the patriarchal family. All of this stuff would go away if women would just stop marrying men in the first place! And stop obsessing about who is this kid’s father or that kid’s father. Ban paternity testing! Kids belong to everybody, sort of, and on a less abstract level, to their mother and her kin. Let’s think of everybody’s kids as just “the next generation” and see if we can be responsible for them together.
Guys could be uncles and brothers.
December 3rd, 2009 at 10:27 pm
Yay! I think I am mostly on the same page as you now. And I am very much looking forward to the article you are planning.
Please don’t be mad at me for pressing this issue, but you used the phrase “when a man has ‘two families’”. When a woman divorces the father of her children and marries a different man, does she also have two families? I really really want to know the answer to this. If it’s yes, I’m good with the analogy. If the answer is no — in my brain the answer is no, but maybe I’m thinking about it differently — if the answer is no, why not? I guess I don’t think of my husband as having two families. I do think of my stepkids as having two families, though. Please don’t be annoyed with me for being obnoxious — I know this is your blog and I’m not trying to be argumentative, this is just sticking in my head, and I would like to hear what you think.
December 3rd, 2009 at 10:57 pm
Jill,
How could I be annoyed? I’m always delighted when anyone takes an interest in these issues and uses this forum. Thank you, as ever.
Hmmm. Two families. Two sets of children might be better? Maybe that gets to the point in a better way. Sometimes my anthropologist mindset really offends in ways I don’t intend. Of course divorces is real, and that woman is no longer the wife–as you know I’m adamant about that! But I think there’s this very real way in which she still feels entitled, and he still feels obliged, when there are children involved, that links them, in ways that are now maladaptive, as a quasi family unit. I don’t like it, but I think there are traces of that. As for whether it’s the same with women–Hetherington found that women are more resentful post divorce, and for longer, than men are, and that men tend to strive for peace and smooth sailing with an ex spouse where women are more conflictual post divorce (sure there are exceptions. but she had a great, broad, representative sample she followed for 30 years and her stats are solid and right on). So I think that changes the whole experience, that gendered response to divorce. More soon. Thanks for reading!
December 3rd, 2009 at 11:57 pm
If today were the day that stepson’s mother well-being allowed her mind and heart to be open… if today were the day she had an epiphany here is what I would like her to know.
I know you had loss/pain in your life, I am sorry. You choose to not move on with your life, to be the victim. My heart feels saddened though mostly for my minor stepson, who has no say in the matter, who is stuck for now (family court is gender role biased for most states). You have alienated my stepson with your loyalty binds from his father and me because of your insecurities, of your feeling threatened in your role as a mother. I feel sad for him because he has known this as part of his life ever since he has been a little boy. My mommy will feel sad if, will be mad if, will be upset if I; she says daddy…, she says you…, she said they got a divorce because, don’t tell my mom but, let it be our secret… I love you, etc. Why do mothers (stepmothers) behave in such a manner that children suffer emotional abuse? Insecurity, threat of their nurturing instinct, a woman scorned…..emotional intelligence becomes lost post divorce? My stepson has known forever your feelings toward me and shared them with me over the years, and I know he shares with you what I say……how do you want him to see you as a mother (stepmother)?
I would like you to respect that I am a part of his life no matter how much that displeases you. That I was there for my stepson when you emotionally were not in part of those early years, that I baked the cookies when he asked, it was me giving the hugs, kissed his hurt away real or imagined, when you would not even spare him a full 24 hours a weekend or weekly visits. A simple thank you and acknowledgement that I was there for him when you were not. As far as my adult stepdaughters, again you hold the loyalty bind strings ever tightly and they are adults so they will make their own choices.
My husband now ignores your threats of what the children will do or think or “your losing your family” infamous quote. We laugh at “narcissitic” behaviors and emails that you cc: your attorney. One day my stepson will be an adult and when he comes to the realization of what you did to him as a child that will be all for you, his dear mother. It will be a sad time again for him and he will choose for himself the kind of relationship he will want to have with you.
P.S. You keep referring to (boyfriend) in your emails as stepson’s stepfather to be and how he is going to be such a great “father to be” to stepson and such a better father than my husband. I have the perfect wedding gift in mind to give you, it’s a book……
**************
(Note: I used the term “my stepson” throughout because as stepmothers we often play an important role in the lives of these children, depending on the relationship in a given stepfamily, even if it is a “second tier” relationship. We introduce stepson’s mother as “This is B, (insert chld’s name) Mother” versus “This is my ex-wife or this is my husband’s ex” so the focus is on the relationship with the child and parent not the spouses. A friend shared that after her divorce as she disliked introducing herself or him when the connection was now because of their daughter, Hi I’m Jill’s Mom, Jane or This is Jill’s father John, or This is Jill’s stepmother Janet
December 4th, 2009 at 11:07 am
I would like my husband’s ex to know that I am sorry that she had an unhappy childhood and sorry that she hates her own stepmother and sorry that she has been hurt by her own father–but I am not that woman, and my husband is not that man, and most importantly, her daughter is not her. Her daughter has her own life and her own identity–and no matter how many times the mother encourages or allow her friends (people who are also her daughter’s teachers) to refer to her as mom’s “mini-me,” mom cannot work out her own childhood problems through her daughter without damaging her deeply.
I wish that she could see me for who I am and what I do, rather than projecting her own horrible stepmother onto me, and interpreting everything I do in the worst possible light. A little gratitude would be nice. After all, my husband and I have raised her daughter for the past 10 years of the child’s life–50/50 custody since she was 3–and the child doesn’t even remember a time when I wasn’t there. I want her to know that I have a long memory, and that I struggle with it, but I can’t un-know the things that I know. I can’t forget about the time, early on, when she threatened to withhold visitation unless we paid considerably more money than the law required; I can’t forget about all that extra money we paid for all those years, and how deeply in debt that left us (and how still, it wasn’t enough); I can’t forget about the time she poked through my home and came away with a fistful of cassette tapes that she claimed were hers; I can’t forget about the time when she and her new husband made her then-6 year old daughter share a hotel bed with her brand-new then 20-year old stepbrother; I can’t forget about all the ways that she dismisses, ignores, insults, undercuts or demeans me.
I wish that she could cultivate some self-awareness and let go of the drama and the constant sense of victimhood. I want her to know that her style of communication–using only the most hyperbolic vocabulary (she is always shocked, appalled, vehemently opposed, chagrined, amazed, alarmed) is ineffective.
I want her to know that I know a lot more about her than she probably realizes. I want her to know that her first marriage wasn’t what she thought it was, and that my husband’s family has been kind to her all these years because they are polite people and that they believe that politeness to her will serve her daughter’s best interests–and not because they sympathize with her, or that they are siding with her in any way. They don’t side with her at all. Just the opposite. I want her to know that all of my husband’s family members, to the person, were pained and angry throughout their marriage at witnessing her constant criticism of my husband and her constant selfishness.
Finally, I want her to know that she has a lot to thank me for. If it weren’t for me and my influence on my husband and his family, her life would be much less pleasant right now. All these years, while she’s seen me as the wicked stepmother, man-stealer, whatever, I have actually been her strongest ally, encouraging my husband towards patience and generosity during the (numerous) times when he was fully prepared to play hardball.
December 4th, 2009 at 11:51 am
My own comment here got deleted somehow. I will write again what I wrote before: I would like my husband’s ex to know–and I have told her–that I give her lots of credit and admire her for the fact that she raised daughters who are smart, interesting, polite, and wonderful young adults. I also give my husband’s ex credit for being very warm to my son the last time she saw us, under circumstances that could well have been stressful and difficult for her, her daughters, and me and my husband. I give her, and anyone, props when they rise to the occasion in these increasingly common, potentially awkward situations where exes get together because of their kids. It is not easy. And I also imagine that it is never easy to see an ex move on and repartner, no matter what–I give her and divorced women who act with great dignity in this way a lot of credit!
December 4th, 2009 at 12:05 pm
“Two sets of children” — yes!!! Actually, a big YES to all of what you just wrote — gendered reactions to divorce, and mom and dad still being connected after divorce. Definitely yes.
December 4th, 2009 at 1:10 pm
One issue we haven’t talked about is the possibility of real mental illness. There’s a lot of it out there. My partner’s ex-wife was diagnosed as bipolar in three different countries, so I assume she really is. This may contribute to her inability to “move on” after their divorce, and to her creating drama unnecessarily. It also undoubtedly contributed to their inability to stay married. She has not remarried.
My friend B who suddenly decided to wage war on her ex-husband’s new girlfriend may be mentally ill too. She has avoided counseling, but she fits the profile for a borderline personality. She has difficulty maintaining relationships with anybody for any period of time, and she (apparently systematically) burned her bridges with everybody in our small town, it seems, before moving back to where she came from, where she also is quite isolated.
Odds are that, apart from any “natural” tendency of ex-wives to be resentful, a sizable proportion of women who drive away their husbands are mentally ill or disordered in some way. This is not to say that every marriage ends because the woman is crazy; men can be crazy too, and marriages can end just because. But chances are a lot of men leave marriages and remarry because their wives were mentally ill. So maybe that’s why there’s so much trouble when a remarriage happens.
Mentally ill people often feel very fragile and vulnerable, and “abandonment” may be a huge issue for them. This is not to excuse their horrible and unethical behavior. I’m just saying it may be why they become worse, or “more symptomatic” in clinical terms, after a divorce, and particularly when the ex-husband finds a new (saner) partner.
December 4th, 2009 at 1:35 pm
Five years ago, I had the opportunity to address some of our stepfamily conflicts to my stepdaughter’s mother. Foolishly thinking that some of the issues would subside after doing so, but it’s clear that the emotional damage she’s done to our stepdaughter is still acting itself out. I have seen things my husband has done as well, such as being the “Disney Dad” and becoming defensive at the mere mention of setting reasonable boundaries, disipline, and consequences for our stepdaughter shortly after our marriage. But, if I could address my stepdaughter’s mother, in hindsight of the past 5 year’s events, I would say:
Your daughter is now 19 years old. She is an adult, a young one at that, but still an adult. You have done a good job of convincing her that she is still a child, as she consistently repeated this to my husband in the hate letter she wrote to him 4 months ago. It is unneccessary, actually ridiculous for that matter, for you to call my husband and relay messages for her anymore. Being an adult now, she should be able to do this on her own. The fact that you still think you should do this for her is yet another clear indication that you had been manipulating her relationship with her father all along.
I did not cause the dissintegration of the marriage between you and my husband. I came into his life 9 years after the fact, but it is clear to me that you are still living in the past and very bitter about this. I say this because: 4 months after meeting your 11 year old daughter, she brought it to my attention that “My mom said if it were up to her, my dad and her would still be married. She never wanted to divorce my dad!”
It was also about that time, that you felt it necessary to phone my husband and advise him that you were concerned about how his dating women would affect your daughter.
This coming from the woman who moved your daughter out of state 3 times to chase after/marry a man who went on to sexually abuse her (stepdaughter). You had knowledge of his child pornographic ways, even admitted later that you saw with your own eyes the child pornography on his computer before this happened, and you still allowed him in your home until he eventually sexually assaulted her. And it still bothers me to this day, why when she told you what he did to her, you didn’t immediately report it to authorities? Why did it take me begging my husband to file charges so that she wouldn’t be subjected to anymore abuse? I had to reason with my husband that “if it were any common stranger off the street that did this to her, you or my husband would surely want him prosecuted!” Why didn’t YOU report it? Instead, you just immediately dropped her off at our house and said you needed time to think about things! You left her with us the whole week and didn’t call her once! What you did by this was heinous! Completely selfish! What were you thinking? But, you are so quick to dismiss your bizarre behavior about this and try to refocus negative attention onto my husband.
Why did you permit her to live with a 24 year old “boy”, when she was only 17, under your roof? Two years later, we gained knowledge that she was pregnant by him but had miscarried. She explained that she didn’t tell her dad because she thought we would judge her. Why would she assume this, when she has been repeatedly told that he loves her no matter what and there’s nothing she could ever do that would make him love her less? My husband has always been a deep, deep well of compassion and understanding where his daughter is concerned, and anyone who knows him would say the very same thing. So why would she draw the assumption that he would “judge” her? I am convicted in my heart that you have done so much behind the scenes manipulation between hers and our relationships that this was her skewed perception of how her father might react.
In her hate letter to us she stated she hated him, me, and our 5 year old twins (innocent to all of this) and wanted us completely out of her lives. Then she went on to say she has a real Dad (your new husband) in her life now and didn’t need her biofather. This made me wonder, once again, why she is so accepting of your new spouses everytime you remarry, but bizarrely so condemning of my husband having married me??? Why is it that she has always called your spouses, her stepdads, by the name of “Dad”, but she has always made sure she only calles me Rachel, never even addresses me as stepmom??? Even that animal (your second husband), who sexually assaulted her, was priveledged enough to be called “Dad” by her. But I have yet to earn being called her stepmom.
I am tired of you calling my husband and ever so craftily mentioning money/material gain to him. Whether it be phoning him to ask “Why [he] didn’t buy her anything for her birthday?” (which he clearly told her that he had a card, with money in it for her, but accidentally forgot it before they met up for dinner) or slyly mentioning to him all of the material things you have bought her and inserting a statement like, “Money has always been a difficult subject to talk about.” Did you even care that we had just learned that my husband’s brother/your daughter’s uncle had just died when you phoned him, badgering him about the giftless birthday nonsense??? You have transferred this guilt-trip skill over to your daughter. It was obvious that you were already working on this with her when, also at the age of 12, she repeated to me “my Dad has alot of money, and if anything ever happens to him, I get it all!” What 12 year old is so preoccupied, and so knowledgeable, about their father’s financial affairs??? I don’t know of too many myself! Sadly, we don’t hear from her often, but when we do, she is only asking for money. The only time IN 3 YEARS that she called to wish my husband a Happy Birthday was because she had just recently asked him for money and was waiting for his answer.
You have been on a “shift the blame onto biofather” campaign for the last 7 years, with no admitted mistakes you have made in raising her. My husband has admitted areas he made mistakes in and ones he still is struggling with where she is concerned. It is time that you look in the mirror, meticulously examine the past, get some help, do whatever is necessary to accept some of the responsibility for your daughter’s compulsive and manipulative behaviors and her recently diagnosed mental health disorder.
December 4th, 2009 at 1:47 pm
I would like my husband’s ex-wife to know that we have worked hard the last 6 years to get out of debt and build a life. Just because you chose to quit your job and your new husband lost his job does not make it our responsibility to support you, your husband and the child you have together.
I want her to know that court ordered visitation that starts at x o’clock STARTS at x o’ clock. We have a family as well and we work around the scheduled times. It would be nice if you would do the same esp. since both you and your husband are now home full time! Quit saying you are the #1 advocate for your daughter and ex-husband’s relationship when you can’t even make a visitation on time!
I’d like you to make sure that your daughter gets to school on time and doesn’t miss 3 weeks of school due to who knows what. Teaching children responsibility and timeliness so they can keep a job in the future is part of being a good parent. Teaching them it’s Ok to be late makes them selfish and self-centered.
If you would get a clue you’d know that keeping a 10 year old up until 10 PM or later on a school night is the reasons she is sick ALL THE TIME!! Yes, she does need 12 hours of sleep, she always has you just never bothered to adjust your own schedule so she could get enough sleep.
December 4th, 2009 at 2:05 pm
@ Elizabeth: I agree with you! My 19 year old stepdaughter has just been diagnosed with bipolar manic depressive disorder. My husband’s and my relationship with her has been turbulent, at best, for 6 years now. Mine was not always that way. We had a wonderful relationship to start off with; played board games together, laughed, did schoolwork together, always communicative with each other. But very soon after my husband and I announced our engagement, our relationships took a dramatic nose-dive. From comments she had made to me, I cannot be convinced otherwise that her mother wasn’t doing some manipulation to cause this. I don’t know if BPD is considered genetic? I have done some online research on it, but yet to find anything regarding it’s possibly being genetic?
December 4th, 2009 at 3:19 pm
Wow. These comments are intense. I’m especially surprised that so SO many ex wives blame the wives/stepmoms for breaking up marriages when these women had nothing to do with it. I wonder if, generally, men are more black and white about the situation - ie, I’m divorced it’s over - while women hold on to the marriage longer (or, eek, forever?)?
I saw it with my husband’s ex too…she would call him every night to say goodnight when we were first dating (and they were divorced), but when she saw that I was sticking around, she suddenly turned on him and I became “a home wrecker.”
I guess I’ll never understand it unless I’m in that situation, and I truly hope I never am.
December 4th, 2009 at 6:10 pm
@ Rachel: Yes, it is thought that bipolar disorder is hereditary. I read a book that traced the disease through several generations of famous but unstable artists in the 19th century.
@ Eyes Wide Open: I’ve been on both ends of this, and I can say that it IS possible to be a cooperative, nice mom-friend to your ex-husband’s new wife. I did not want to be married to my husband any more, and so I was glad when he found somebody else–and he did, right away! She and my son got along reasonably well, and he likes his half brother and sister. They worship him.
December 4th, 2009 at 10:40 pm
I think the only thing I need to get straight with her is that I WAS HIS FIRST GIRLFRIEND in high school. Not you, silly goose. (How freaking retarded is that? We’re talking 1980 for pete’s sake…but for some reason, she thinks it was her first…uh…)
Ok…childish, but it is the one first I get with my man.
December 5th, 2009 at 9:03 am
Eyes Wide Open, I think you’re right. My husband always says getting a divorce was a one-time event that occurred and he moved on from it. His ex drags it around with her every day of her life.
December 5th, 2009 at 10:55 am
Rachel’s experience of being the one to report that her stepdaughter had been sexually abused by her (the stepdaughter’s) stepfather takes the cake on so many levels. Give yourself credit for perhaps saving your stepdaughter’s life and certainly giving her a better shot at a sane, healthy life with your intervention.
In general, reading these responses, I have one main reaction. Some people get divorced because there is no other way out, and manage to remain sane and relatively healthy during and after. Other people, hopefully fewer, are so sick, so pathological, that divorce is just a symptom of deeper, more fundamental issues that make them incapable of having relationships–and the stresses or divorce just worsen their tendencies and exacerbate their pathology. Other people seem to be rendered pathological and sick by the pressures and stressors of divorce. I keep coming back to Hetherington’s observations about gendered responses to divorce. With some notable exceptions, who have all my admiration, Hetherington and Ahrons both shore up our sense that these histrionic (sorry, but if the shoe fits) responses to divorce are among women, many of whom initiate divorce but lose it when their husbands repartner. That is not to say that men aren’t sometimes crazy, violently possessive post-divorce, with women falling victim to their madness. But the fact remains that these baroque interpersonal dramas post-divorce are stoked, as Hetherington and Ahrons found, largely by ex wives. Much more research will have to be done before we know the precise hows and whys–though I agree with sociologists Stephanie Coontz and Linda Neilsen that our possessive mother model does us no favors here.
Reading all this I really give credit to the exceptional women who divorce and who, when their husbands repartner (as we know from the research that husbands tend to do within two years and often within one) maintain their dignity and self-respect, rather than beating the drum of their divorce for the rest of their lives. A wonderful story by Mary Kelly-Williams in the December issue of Stepmom Magazine really caught my attention and may interest you all. Mary, a family and couples therapist, mother of four, is also divorced and remarried a man with kids. In her essay she discusses a moment of “divorce regret”–examining a moment of temporary envy and jealousy at her ex’s life with his now wife–with raw honestly that is enlightening. I recommend it to everyone.
More soon. Keep the responses coming, here and on the Noonesthebitch website, if you are inclined!
-wednesday
December 7th, 2009 at 5:42 pm
It’s simple. I want my husband’s former wife to know nothing about my life. She knows what she needs to know. I do not compete with her when it comes to parenting her child. I do not parent her child. I do not compete with her child for time with her child’s father. I do not resent any times she calls my husband for whatever the reason. I’m happy to see the good communication between the two of them. I do not resent the times he goes to her home to help her with home repairs. I’m happy for their child to see this kind of relationship between her parents who are no longer married. That’s it in a nutshell.
December 7th, 2009 at 8:49 pm
Wednesday - Mary Kelly-Williams’ article was fab in StepMom!
December 7th, 2009 at 9:42 pm
Peggy,
It was a great article Mary wrote. And let’s give Mary credit for something else–it would be so annoying if an ex wanted one’s husband to come do chores at her house. Jesus! I think most of us would count ourselves lucky to have someone rational as our husband’s ex. Thoughtful like Mary or Jennifer Newcomb Marine–now that would be amazing.
-wednesday
December 12th, 2009 at 12:47 am
I NEED HELP
My BF and I recently moved in together. He has a 10 yo daughter of whom he is supposed to have partial custody. He ex-wife is crazy. I’m not exaggerating. Her craziness has paralleled our relationship. Since we moved in together, it has increased, and their daughter has become increasingly “anxious” yet also increasingly busy with sports and friends to the point where there was always a convenient excuse why the daughter could not visit with her father and I.
This week, the ex-wife stopped fabricating excuses and simply said, “She is not coming over. Call your lawyer. You are on notice.” We didn’t know what she was talking about. Then, we found out that earlier in the week she had applied for (and was thankfully denied) a petition for an injunction against domestic violence against my BF on behalf of their daughter. Her petition rambled for 7+ pages. She is alleging emotional abuse and feels their daughter in imminent danger of physical abuse by her father. This is outrageous, and she’s either perjuring herself or she’s delusional if she believes it all. Needless to say, we were shocked. We had no idea anything of this magnitude was brewing. Although the petition was denied, she has since refused visitation twice this week. The daughter has also been out of school for at least three days this week for no apparent reason.
We are both decent people who have tried very hard to communicate and cooperate with this woman. We feel she on the brink of or in the middle of a manic cycle. My BF went to his lawyer this week, and they will be filing the appropriate motions on Monday. Unfortunately we both work full time and do not have a lot of money. We are barely scraping together the (very kindly reduced) retainer fee the lawyer is requesting. She, on the other hand, is unemployed and is funded by a seemingly endless trust fund. She has all the time and money to drive us to bankruptcy.
I feel so threatened. We had plans for 2010 to move into a 3 bedroom house (right now we rent a tiny 2 bedroom apartment) and have a baby. I feel like she’s trying to prevent our lives from moving forward. I feel like she wants us to suffer. In the petition, she alleged my BF told their daughter that we would have a new baby when we got fed up with her. My mind is wrapping around each lie she fabricated and wanting to refute them all, but it’s pointless. I am obsessing.
I fear if we don’t have the funds to see a custody battle through that my BF’s daughter will go on believing her mom is some savior and her dad has abandoned her. I fear if we do get custody, we will have one pissed off preteen sulking in her room. The girl will be devastated if she’s separated from her mother, and we can’t financially support the lifestyle her mother has gotten her used to. Her life will be “ruined,” although we know it will be better in the long run. I’m scared and confused. I’ve never felt targeted like this before.
Last week, there were troubles and issues, this week feels like life and death.
December 12th, 2009 at 12:48 am
PS - I was the first “anonymous” poster. You can read a little background there.
December 15th, 2009 at 9:50 am
Dear Margaret,
I had no internet service for the better part of the last five days so didn’t see this message until now.
First things first: this person has a serious personality disorder or is mentally ill. Take a minute to let that settle in. You say she may be on a manic upswing. She is, in that case, a person in a biochemically altered state with, as you say, endless energy for conflict, trouble-making, and deviousness.
So your first order of business is to protect yourself and your marriage from this negative and destructive force. I suggest you and your husband get in to see a qualified couples therapist immediately, someone with a good understanding of and a great deal of experience with both manic depression/bipolar disorder and borderline personality disorder.
What this person is likely to tell you is that you and your husband should cease all but the most minimal contact with this woman. Your stepdaughter being caught in the middle is heartbreaking, as are the lies, but the more you interact with your husband’s ex, it seems from your description of the situation, the more “activated” she will become.
Again I urge you to seek professional help immediately if you haven’t since the time you posted this.
Don’t forget to meditate if you wish, or build another ritual of relaxation into your day. Stress can literally kill you. So take good care.
Wishing you all good things,
wednesday
December 15th, 2009 at 11:15 am
Thank you for your input, Wednesday. We actually have our first couple’s counseling session scheduled for this Friday (this was set before and independently of the recent events). We were going in to see a counselor to learn to improve our own communications and talk about what it will be like to start our own family. Now we’re in a crisis to deal with his ex-wife. He has been to see his lawyer and today they will be filing an emergency petition to enforce the current settlement agreement. Pending the outcome/her reaction, they’ve already drafted a motion for sole custody.
It’s all incredibly frustrating and disarming. We keep trying to anticipate what will happen: will she take their daughter and flee? Will she become violent? And what of the daughter? Does she believe her dad abuses her? Will we have to de-program her? We keep spinning our wheels. And waiting…
December 18th, 2009 at 7:33 pm
I did not steal your daughters from you. You aliagnated them all on your own by not feeding them and treating them like crap. By bad mouthing their father and I you turned them against you. I never once wanted your daughters to call me mom or ever take your place. I just wanted a place in their lives since they came with my husband. You marriage was what you destroyed when you left my husband for another man and then proceeded to flaunt your boyfrineds kids in front of your own and take food from them to feed your boyfriends kids. You are an alocholic and the sooner you except that the better you and your daughter will be off. I am NOT in competition with you and I never have been. I want my own child more than you will ever know. You are also a narcassits and I am on to your games. We will never be friends and honestly I don’t have to be. The peace and quiet that hubby and I have gotten since getting full custody of your kids because you can’t take care of them right has been a blessing that I am so thankful for. Why you wish to contimue to fight for custody of the youngest when you tell her to pack her stuff up and give to good will since she doesnt’ want to live with you is beyond my understanding.
I have been with hubby now for almost 7 years and I am not going anywhere. Why don’t you focus on your new marriage; which you made sure you tell your girls it was for the money, house and what you can get when your new husbands mother dies was all about. Nice role model you are for your daughters. Don’t hate me because I have a master’s degree and a career which helps to pay for your kids. Why don’t you actually step up and be the mother that you project yourself to be so that I don’t have to step in and be. I never wanted to be mom or ever take your place. I was happy with seeing your kids over the weekend and then having alone time with hubby all week. I wasn’t happy with you calling constantly for stupid crap and to just ruin the girls visits. I want to be a mom to my own child and it will happen whether you like it or not. You don’t control US or anything that has to deal with us. GET A LIFE! Don’t be a hater because I worked hard for what I have and where I am. I feel sad for you that you don’t even know that your daughters love you unconditionally and all they want is your love and respect in return. They are loyal to you not me! They want you (their mother) to stop acting phoney and putting on shows around other people, and actually love them for who they are with no judgement. Why can’t you see that you have the greatest gift that God could give….two beautiful, healthy, intelligent daughters that only want their mother to love them for who they are. I feel pity for you not hate. Try coming into this relationship when you don’t have kids and have to deal with a jealous, manipulating ex who only thinks about themselves and no one else.
January 31st, 2010 at 12:13 am
I would want her to know that I love her daughter very much and I raise her alongside my two sons as if she was my very own. I wash her clothes, prepare her meals, get her on the school bus, off the school bus, help her with her homework, play with her, meet her friends parents, take her to sports practices, church activities… Anything and everything she needs. I would want her to know that giving birth to her does not make her a mother. I would want her to know that sometimes I am jealous that in spite of everything, her daughter wants her. I would say I want you to see me as your daughter’s second mother. I want you to recognize that I do all that you can’t do or won’t do for her. You abandoned her at birth, and I have raised her for years. And now you want to be in her life, and resent me? I would want to say that I feel sorry for you. You miss out on so much. Your daughter is beautiful. And I’m sorry that the only credit that you can take for that, is her genetics.
On a side note, I was reflecting on previous postings on why bio moms harbor so much resentment towards step moms. In my case I think that the obvious feeling is jealousy, but I believe that at her core she feels very very guilty and ashamed. Even if the bio mom made the choice to leave, perhaps there are feelings of unresolved guilt.